Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing now?

Ting

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

quite a big impact i suppose.
parents give me lotsa leeway n freedom, which i would impose on pin too.
they dun believe in pressurising n not the kiasu kinda parents.
they believe each child has their limits n let them learn on their own pace.
which is how im letting pin grow, in her own pace, not stressing her.
 

MomoMummy

Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

actualli i intend to change almost everything.

i was born accidentally. grandma told me mom almost bring me to abort. nanny ( neighbour ) look after me almost 24/7. everytime i come home, i cry cause im unfamiliar with home. father didnt like me ever since i was born. everytime tell my mom why she always cry. how irritating. mum told me that she feel i not close to her cause i was not look after by her when i was born. i wont allow my daughter to go to another country ( inlaws) or look after by someone else. i dont like that if future, my dear daughter dont recorgnise me or calls my inlaws instead of learning to call parents first.

i would try my best to b super close to her like my best friend or sister rather than my daughter. so she will not feel that i shudnt tell mummy this or that. not holding her back everytime she wants to go out with her friends. Though i will make sure she is safe from her friends. ( mum very controlling of me in the past, i would come back and write journal saying how much i hate my mum )

if she dont do well in studies, i would not punish her like how my mom punish me. i still very clearly remember how i was punish. was beaten and had to kneel down in front of altar with 2 hands on my ears for several hours. for 3 occasions was chase out of the house aso. me banging on the door begging mum to let me in.grandma open door.. super grateful to her.

beat must beat if naughty. but on the hands. and then i will tell her what she shudnt do and to say sorry. after that i will hug her and kiss her say mummy love you.

think more and more relax as generations pass. dad beat by my grandma until very poor thing. prob thats why my father dont like my grandma and sent her to old folks home. he was tie up and then put into those rice bag, got beat and then thrown into the sea when he was naughty. hear damn scary.

anyway now grow up be mummy already, know be a mother is not easy at all. now closer to mum as when i got family problems i tell her. she share with her her in laws story which is worst. :p still, i love my mummy very much. hee
 
Last edited:

stonston

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

Before I was 10yo, my mum was damn strict. Strict until we very scared. Then we were older, she started to tell us since we are grown up, she'll give us more freedom because she trust we won't do wrong things. Somehow it worked on us bcos we know our limits & even with absolute freedom, we did not get into trouble :)

I'm very strict with my son. So is my hb cos he was also brought up in a v strict family. But we are more 'modern' because we openly show our love by telling my boy we love him or give him tonnes of hugs & kisses :)

Somehow it'll affect you. Either you 'follow' consciously or sub-consciously or you will make a conscious effort to avoid being the same.
 

apollo

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

when i was still in pri sch, kanna caned almost everyday! my mum is always wking... since pri3 -4 onwards, i'm able to go to see docto\r ON MY OWN whenever i'm sick!

always stay at home alone, watch tv alone, do homework alone... mum didnt spend much time with me, our communication is only : CANNING!!! She was a typical mother, anything wrong, CANE! but nv explain or tell me what i've done wron...

until pri 6 i dunno why, suddenly became very quiet.. and my form teacher noticed something 'not right' and called up my mum... i didn't know she actually called up her until few yrs later when me and my mum relationship got better...

i used to think why my mum always cane me and not my bro...

but lucky now my mum dote me more than my bro,our relationship got so much better that everyone says "wow like sister"... she used to dote on him more but as we grow up, she realised that my beo seems to be more bo-chap while i care more abt the family... and i even always overheard her telling others that she quite regret last time didnt spend much time with me and keep caning me etc...

now, i help her do hsework, she help me take care ds.. hehe...

So i'm quite FIRM that i wanna take care ds on my own! though it's tough but at least for these 2 yrs.. even i'm going bk to wk in future, i'll make sure giving ds ample time and attention! :001_302:
 

BbpHir3

Active Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

the way that i was brought up affected me alot..
as in, i start to compare the ways tat DH n I were brought up.. n i realise actually everyone would prefer my environment.. when i told my parents bout it.. my mum told me.. now den u noe how good your environment is arhz?!?!?! lol... den my dad told me "the type of person tat your daughter grow up to be will depend on how u bring her up.. dun depend on your husband.." wahahahahahaha... i'll always rmb the first part.. but the second part arhz~~ i keep asking my dad if mummy can depend on u anot?!?! hahaha..

my parents always let me make my own choices.. whether izzit the part whereby i get to choose my sec school, or when i got lead astray n started smokin, or the part when i realise tat i'm preg with DD n need to make a choice whether to kip her anot or get married anot...

in life, i've made some good n bad choices.. they are my ups n downs.. i wun stop DD from making her own choices.. but i would, lyk my parents have, lead her thru her life with the experience tat i had in my life..
 

meiteoh

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

My parents' style of parenting isn't all that bad (they never pressured me directly to study and they do let me decide TO A DEGREE) BUT there are some things I would change...

1) I would be more positive about my children's looks and size and be more complimentary. When I was growing up, my mum used to say that I was ugly, not cute and so forth. She would criticize my size and she still does it. Worse, she does it in front of people. When I was in Australia, she came to visit me after a few months of not seeing me. I had lost a lot of weight then. She never once complimented me. Nearly a year later, when I put on some weight, the first thing she did was went "WAH, SO FAT ALREADY" on the top of her voice when we were taking the train back. People around us heard and some even snickered at me.

Throughout my pregnancy, she would say things like how my tummy is small and it's not good but now, she is saying that my tummy is big, bigger than those people having twins and so forth. To a degree, my weight and size is an issue because of her and her reaction to it.

I don't want my children growing up feeling the way I feel about my size and all...

My bro used to tell my dad that nothing he does is good enough for my parents because they are always critical of us both. Whatever we do, till today, is under fire - the house he bought, the place me & hubby are staying in, how we pack our things, and so forth - EVERYTHING is always not good enough. As such, I don't want my children to feel like they are underachievers or useless just because they do things differently from me. My mum will criticize my cooking even though she doesn't know how to cook that dish and my dad never compliments me or my hubby when we do anything right.

Since they arrived on Sunday, my parents have done nothing but complain or criticize and nag. This is something I don't want to do to my children AT ALL.

2) I will teach my children to appreciate other people's culture and be open minded about it. My parents can be very racist and stereotypical. Just because my hubby doesn't like Heineken beer, my dad concluded that he's a patriotic French who drinks only French beer (when in fact, he doesn't drink French beer at all). My mum thinks all angmohs are lazy because they don't believe in overtime. And they both think that having separate plates for dessert and main course (typical French style of eating even at home) is fine dining and snobbish.

3) I will teach them to enjoy reading and appreciate books. My parents think books are a waste of money. They don't like reading and therefore, love to criticize and nag me & my hubby when they see the number of books we have OR whenever I buy any books. To them, it's pointless to buy books because we read it once and that's it. My mum sees this baby book I have written by the Sears which I sometimes encourage her to read because it has very good info on breastfeeding and parenting, and she goes "So thick! I don't want to read. What for? I'm not taking care of your kid" (but she'll nag me on how to take care of my baby).

My dad believes that the idiotic box is a better communicator of knowledge than books - to him, watching a movie is better than reading the book that the movie was based on. My mum is worse - she won't even touch a book even if you paid her a million bucks to do it.

4) I would encourage my children to be more proactive in helping out rather than force AND I would make things equal! My parents' style, especially my dad, was to force, force, force. I resented it and while I did learn something, I feel that I would have learnt more if I did all the things I had to do willingly. My parents were also bias in the sense that my brother got away with doing almost nothing while I had to do everything. In fact, until today, the men in my house never help in the kitchen, never pick up after themselves and my mum & I are expected to cook, clean and so forth. Heck, I was even told that I should continue ironing my bro's shirts after he got married!!!!!! My dad would force me to stand in the kitchen and watch my mum cook while my bro sits outside and watches TV, force me to go to the wet market with her every morning, force me to help her with the laundry, force me to set the table, force me to do the housechores and laundry...but my bro? Nothing.

Even now, my hubby is the only one who will help my mum in the kitchen cooking; my dad expects me at 39 weeks to clean the place, set the table, and cook & all while he sits and relax. He will actually bug me and my mum to prepare dinner while he sits and waits for it to be served.

For example, for breakfast yesterday, my mum took out whatever he wanted from the fridge and my dad was at the table waiting. While she was making coffee (for him), I was preparing my oats and it so happened that I brought out my glass of milk and bowl. My dad casually went "I need a knife for the butter" but refused to move from his seat. I went back to the kitchen. My mum was like "I'm busy making your coffee, your daugther is busy cooking her oats, why don't you just get up and come get it yourself?" He started giving excuses and so forth - all the while sitting in his chair. I don't want my children to learn such things - being a man doesn't make you a king. In fact, I want them to learn how to cook, clean and such in order for them to be independent and functioning adults AND not because they are girls or boys.

In fact, it got to the point where my MIL used to tell me that I spoil my hubby by doing all the housechores and that my hubby should do his share of cooking, cleaning and so forth!

5) No emo blackmail and guilt-tripping plus all that pussyfooting. My parents, being typical Asians, LOVE to do the whole guilt-tripping, cold war crap and etc. While they let me make decisions of my own and not pressure me to study and all, my parents aren't exactly quick to compliment me when I do achieve something. In fact, they rarely compliment me or my brother, leading us to pressure ourselves. When they disapprove, they tend to play the cold war card and ignore us, making us feel guilty for speaking our minds even though we are right.

6) No comparing with other people. All my life, I grew up having to put up with "how come you're not like so and so?". No no no. I am my own person and so are my children. They are unique and unlike others. Just because they do things differently doesn't make them freaks, useless or hopeless OR just not good enough.
 

uddermummy

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

aiyoh, meiteoh, i want your mil! to my mil, i should be doing a whole lot more stuff for hubby. in fact, she would prob be happier if i could worship the ground hubby walks on, and then of course sweep and mop it clean as well.

my dad nags a lot, and he seems to think that he's the only one in the whole wide world that has something in the brains, and that his, and only his, views are correct. And did i mention that he nags?
Result: would never, ever impose my views on dd, and will try v hard not to nag.

my mum is a kancheong spider who gets pek chek v easily. but then hor, she really really loves me cos she's been helping me and taking my crap all this while.
result: will try not to be a kancheong spider, but will always be there for dd. in fact, i'm planning so that i can retire to look after dd's children next time, and so that she doesn't have to deal with crappy confinement nannies, and mils.
 

CanCanMum

Moderator
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

my mum is lenient and dad is strict

dad will use cane but mum will hide the cane

so me and my bro grew up with those cane marks now and then :p but luckily my skirt always can cover but my bro wears shorts so always cannot cover :p

i still remember last time my brother will shout to my dad and told him to cane places where his classmates cannot see lols~~~ and i noticed my bro kenna caned more times than me

discipline wise i prefer talk it out rather than lay down the rules and strictly follow. And no caning. Sad to say hubby prefers my dad's disciplinary method.

Thinking wise will try and avoid those that i do not wish to happen to myself when young, and apply them on my son now, but if really bo bianz, have to follow dad and mums method because they've worked :tlaugh:
 

apollo

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

meiteoh, i think ur parents are 'torturing' u emotionally!

actu my parents also ABIT lik tt but not as in criticising but the bias part.. though they dote me but whenever it comes to hsewk, i have to wash my own plates (reasonable, cos i'm the one using) but my bro can just throw it aside and walk off! and i always got reprimanded by not washing my bro's dishes... when i asked "why bro can dun wash his dishes and just throw it aside?" they will always reply "cos he's a MAN while u're a WOMAN! aft he got married, his wife will do for him!"

So funny, they still out of the situation lo... nowadays, if guys dun share hsewk burden with their wives, sure kanna kick out of the hse!

what makes me more piss is, whenever i feel so angry and dun wash his plates, cups... my parents will willingly wash for him! without any complains! and when i tell my bro "can u pls wash ur own plates?" he will reply "aiya just leave it... u dun wash also... later papa mama will wash" -.-"""
 

meiteoh

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

Uddermummy, in a way, I'm lucky that my MIL is those modern type of angmoh who believe in equality. To her, just because I'm a woman or a housewife doesn't mean that I have to do all the housechores. A marriage is a partnership whereby two people share stuff and not just the wife waiting on the hubby hand and foot 100% of the time.

My dad now in a way is like your dad - always nagging and believes that he is infallible (cannot do anything wrong). He'll scold people for leaving their things everywhere BUT he himself does it. When you point it out to him, he'll start scolding you for being a nagger. Pity my mum... =.=

Regina, in a way, yeah, it's like emotional torture because they still treat me and my bro like we are six years old. Yes, our children will always be our children but when they are adults, we should treat them like adults and allow them some leeway & opportunity to live their own lives and choose their own paths.

I still remember how my mum used to nag my bro to eat and so forth...he will come to visit my mum and she'll literally force him to take back some food even though he has mentioned before that no one will be at home for days and the food will go bad while he's away. When I tell her to back off and let him be (I mean, you ask, people say no, just accept it graciously), she tell me to shut up and mind my own business. In the beginning, my bro will tell her why and just talk to her but over time, he started to shut down and just don't talk to my parents at all... :/ I don't want that to happen to me.
 

jal

Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

Though I am not a mother yet, I know the kind of mother I want to be for my children because of my childhood.

I & my younger brother grew up in a very poor family. My father was the only one working & my mum stayed home to look after the 2 of us. My father was very mean. Before he went to work, he would give my mother $2 for her to spend on any necessities. Come on, $2 for 3 people??? So at the nearby food centre, my mother would order 2 plates of fried noodles & 2 glasses of soya bean milk for me & my brother, while she ordered NOTHING for herself. She only ate our leftovers so as to save that few cents & secretly stash it away for next day's necessities as my father sometimes does NOT give my mother $2.

We were so poor that there were times we ate plain porridge with soya sauce as we could not afford anything else. And when the stored rice in the container was overrun with a lot of weevils (I was very disgusted & told my mother to throw it away immediately), my mother could not bear to throw away the rice. Instead she just disposed the insects when she washed the rice.

We were so poor we never ate fast food before. Do you remember in the past, there was a fast food restaurant called A&W? Once me, my brother & mother were walking home when suddenly my mother stopped in her tracks & placed both her hands onto the restaurant glass door & I am embarrassed to say this, and opened her mouth as if to eat. She must have seen something delicious & could not control herself but still, I was really very embarrassed & I tugged at my mother to leave quickly. At the same time, I was feeling bitterly ashamed for being poor & I wondered why can others afford to eat it but we can't?

We were so poor that often my mother would call my paternal grandmother who was staying at the block next to us, & asked her if she was cooking for the day. If she did, my mother would bring both of us over to eat. Sometimes, when my mother was too paiseh to call everyday, she would make me call to ask. And there was one time my auntie, who was still single & staying with my grandmother at that time, could not take it & she called my mother to scold her big time over the phone. "Why do you & your children come over for free food almost everyday???!!!" I remember the phone call being a particularly long one & my mother cried like mad after that. And I hated my auntie to the core for being so uncompassionate.

We were so poor my mother used to bring home A LOT of wire taping work to do. I am not sure if you have ever heard of such home-based work before. One has to insert different coloured wires into a head in the correct position & then tape them together with a black tape. The pay rate was damn pathetic. It was like 10 cents for every 1000 wires??? I remember helping my mother inserting & taping, inserting & taping, inserting & taping almost non-stop after I had finished my school work. So in order to earn $1, you can imagine the amount of wires my mother brought home to do.

We were so poor that we could not pay our electricity bills on time. There was once after repeated warnings, an electrician from then PUB came down to cut our wires. My mother pleaded with him to show some mercy. She was crying & saying that there are still 2 young children at home & they need light to do their homework, & whatever little food we had in the fridge would go bad if he really cut the wire, etc. My mother was making so much noise the neighbours came out to watch the 'good show'. The electrician looked at my mother, looked at my brother & looked at me. And he went to cut the wire anyway. And so our lives were plunged into darkness literally. The ice in the fridge melted & my mother tried to salvage whatever little food we had but of course they all became bad after a few days. My brother & I brought our worksheets & did our schoolwork at the void deck while my mother brought along all that wires to insert & tape while she waited for us. I can't remember how many dark days we had to endure.

We were so poor often we could not afford to pay the supplementary school fees on time & I was very embarrassed whenever my form teacher asked me repeatedly when I was going to pay. I was always the last person in the class to pay up. And I remember feeling resentment towards certain classmates who did not have to fork out a single cent by virtue of their race. I am not being a racist, just feeling tonnes of resentment that they had such a privilege.

When I have my children, I will definitely teach them the virtue of thriftiness & gratitude. I find that such values are starkingly absent in this age. I do not want my children to grow up like the typical spoilt Singaporean kid, one who follows the latest trend in faithfully toting the newest & most glamourous school bag, Playstation, Ipod, handphone & all that materialistic nonsense. And I will teach them to literally finish every grain of rice on their plate for there are people in some parts of the world who have nothing to eat & die of hunger. I will teach my children to learn simply & be grateful for all the little blessings around them. And this I believe, is my greatest gift to them, & the key to their happiness.
 
Last edited:

uddermummy

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

hi jal, sayang! you've come a long way!

my family was quite poor also when i was younger, and my mum had to hold many jobs. She was a clerk/ tuition teacher/ insurance agent etc etc just to make ends meet! Yeah, and there are relatives who can be v mean.

but i think i appreciate my mum more for the things she's done, and also know that i don't want my dd to have too easy a life.
 

Ting

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

wow, im quite surprised to read some of the replies here.
for me n my parents, we always praise pin when she does something right, n reprimand her if she does it wrong. i think a child likes to be appreciated n she will be encouraged to do the right thing if she is recognised by it.

Jal, my heart went out to u when i read your post. but i had been thru bad times too when i was younger, but it wasnt so bad.
i guess its very important to have a good childhood, cos it reflects how u r when u grow up to become an adult.
 

Ashbaby

Active Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

I were very poor when I were young. But Im fortunate enough to have aunties and uncles who love me like their own daughter. My aunties and uncles were nice enough to sit down everytime year start, to contribute to our CNY clothing and school stuff. My mom and dad tried their best to give us whatever they could.

My mom is very strict with us when we were young. We get serious canning over the smallest issue. So we were one of those obedient kids in the family. My mom nvr had trouble bringing all of us out, cos we wont dare to run far.
 

apollo

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

wow, im quite surprised to read some of the replies here.
for me and my parents, we always praise pin when she does something right, and reprimand her if she does it wrong. i think a child likes to be appreciated and she will be encouraged to do the right thing if she is recognised by it.

Jal, my heart went out to you when i read your post. but i had been thru bad times too when i was younger, but it wasnt so bad.
i guess its very important to have a good childhood, cos it reflects how you are when you grow up to become an adult.
totally agree with u!! :001_302:
 

MomoMummy

Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

hi jal mummy.. u indeed went thru a lot.. nt onli u teach yr kids bt u tht me to be thrift aso.. ya children now have everything they want.. muz teach them hw hard money is earn.
 

snowbear

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

Jal, my heart goes out to you. You've got a wonderful mother who has taught you the value of selflessness and made the abstract concept of a mother's love clear through her actions.

My dad passed away when i was 10 and my mum brought my bro and i up single-handedly after that. When my dad was around, my mum was always the disciplinarian while he'd be the nice guy. My mum placed some pressure on my bro and i to do well in school and actually my bro and i both understood the need to do well anyway so i wouldn't say that my mum overstressed me or my bro.

My mum's a perfectionist and always expected me to get full marks for every exam when i was young. I remember her scolding me for a whole day coz i got 98/100 for my English exam in Primary 2. For me, i wouldn't expect my child to get full marks all the time and i dont think that's a reasonable expectation anyway. Now she thinks back on her actions and laughs at herself. Whenever i got my results at university and tell her how i did, she'd just smile happily and add cheekily whenever i din get a perfect score, "why never get perfect score this time" and we'd both laugh.

What's good about the way my mum brought me up is that she gave me the freedom to choose what i wanted to study and where i wanted to study. She also hardly nagged about us not studying when we entered secondary school. I had a lot of friends around me who had their lives dictated by their parents and certainly that's not what i'd wanna do to my darling. I'd give her the freedom to choose what she's interested and good at doing when she's old enuff to decide for herself.
 

uddermummy

Well-Known Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

Jal, my heart goes out to you. You've got a wonderful mother who has taught you the value of selflessness and made the abstract concept of a mother's love clear through her actions.

My dad passed away when i was 10 and my mum brought my bro and i up single-handedly after that. When my dad was around, my mum was always the disciplinarian while he'd be the nice guy. My mum placed some pressure on my bro and i to do well in school and actually my bro and i both understood the need to do well anyway so i wouldn't say that my mum overstressed me or my bro.

My mum's a perfectionist and always expected me to get full marks for every exam when i was young. I remember her scolding me for a whole day coz i got 98/100 for my English exam in Primary 2. For me, i wouldn't expect my child to get full marks all the time and i dont think that's a reasonable expectation anyway. Now she thinks back on her actions and laughs at herself. Whenever i got my results at university and tell her how i did, she'd just smile happily and add cheekily whenever i did not get a perfect score, "why never get perfect score this time" and we'd both laugh.

What's good about the way my mum brought me up is that she gave me the freedom to choose what i wanted to study and where i wanted to study. She also hardly nagged about us not studying when we entered secondary school. I had a lot of friends around me who had their lives dictated by their parents and certainly that's not what i'd wanna do to my darling. I'd give her the freedom to choose what she's interested and good at doing when she's old enuff to decide for herself.
your mum's a great mum and so are you!!! :Dancing_wub:
 

jal

Member
Re: Let's share!How has e way ur mum brought u up influenced u in ur child rearing no

my mum is lenient and dad is strict

dad will use cane but mum will hide the cane

so me and my bro grew up with those cane marks now and then :p but luckily my skirt always can cover but my bro wears shorts so always cannot cover :p

i still remember last time my brother will shout to my dad and told him to cane places where his classmates cannot see lols~~~ and i noticed my bro kenna caned more times than me

discipline wise i prefer talk it out rather than lay down the rules and strictly follow. And no caning. Sad to say hubby prefers my dad's disciplinary method.

Thinking wise will try and avoid those that i do not wish to happen to myself when young, and apply them on my son now, but if really bo bianz, have to follow dad and mums method because they've worked :tlaugh:
Yeah, my mother used to cane me & my younger brother. Even if I were not the one who created the trouble, I will have the 'good fortune' of 'enjoying romantic pink streaks' on my hands & legs. If the cane landed on my upper arm/thighs, my school uniform covered them up. If the cane landed on my lower arms or legs instead, I will put on a plaster. Sometimes when there was no more plaster in the house since we were too poor to buy extra ones, I just had to leave my scars for all & sundry to see. The irony of caning is, sometimes my mother will force me to go downstairs & buy it! Of course I was reluctant to go but I was forced to go anyway. And I was smart to choose those thicker "teng tiao" so that the pain is less sharp. Heh heh heh. My brother was quite cunning. He would hide the cane or throw it out the window (oops) whenever my mum was not looking. So I guessed that's one of the reasons why the shop auntie would gimme a kind of look that goes "You again?!" whenever I patronize her shop...

So I guess for my future child-rearing, I will not use cane. However this does not mean I will not use physical means to discipline my children. I will use my hands to whack them if they are not obedient. Nowadays kids are getting smarter & more rebellious, so I find that if parents are not forceful enough, verbal discipline will not do their children enough good.
 
Top