Marrying Foreign Wives

tommyBoi

Alpha Male
There are more and more Singaporean men marrying foreign wives, esp from China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand, etc. Ard my circle of frens, there are about 50% of them married foreigner, including me. I also came across an article few weeks ago saying that the latest birth rate shows more than 50% of the newborn baby are from foreign wives. Moreover, there are more Singaporean Female than Male now.

I wondering if these trend carry on for the next few years, there will be many single Singaporean female in future. I believe there are many foreign wives in this forum as well. Any comments on the above issue?

cheers!!
 

Leanne

Active Member
I've heard too many stories bout these. & seriously, it's getting on my nerves.

Alright, why so? I've friends' brothers(who are mostly in their 30s) claimed that foreign wives are not so high maintenance, much more understanding, prettier etc than Singaporean women.

However i bet to differ. Yes, they are not that materialistic yet, but soon they will. In Singapore, such a fashion country, who will not be materialistic & fashionable in a few yrs time?

Very soon, she'll need your cash regularly.

& maybe, they wanna their husbands to hang arnd w them more, hence they gave birth to more babies?

Their culture is like aiya, i dun mind having more babies since our husbands will be bringing them up with their money......

Whereas Singaporean women mostly are working mums, hence they will need to spend money on house, car & kids too!

That's e difference!

&, seriously, i still think Singapore women are better. Just a personal view.
 
sorry to say this but i think men who marry docile women are just chauvinists @ heart. they just want a woman @ their beck & call, who don't have much opinion, who'll attend to their every need ... & most importantly - don't complain!

but u see Leanne, these foreign women esp those from 3rd world countries ... they ARE materialistic. why else would they chase after singapore men?

i've heard too many stories of batam women marrying singapore retirees who have already cashed out their CPF. majority of these men divorce their first wives of more than 20 - 30 years!

i know a guy who's actually still quite young. divorcee, then met a woman in batam. married her. since day 1 of their marriage the 2nd wife been insisting he apply for her singapore PR.

few mths ago he broke the law & now he's sitting in prison. wife has since left him!

you'll know it's love when the "foreign wife" insists her singapore husband migrate to her own home country & stay with her look after her family. NO bustling city life, NO car, NO career, NO condo, not much cash. sleep in one bed made of rattan. how stress-free & infinitely romantic! =)
 

badtzzz

Member
is there a so called "love" in this relationship? sometimes i doubt? are these men desperate to get a "xiao nu ren", stay at home, looking after the kids?

just a personal opinion...
 

Leanne

Active Member
WeeFee's_Mummy, i can't agree more with you :D

& sadly, only we women know how other 'women' feel really. & another sad thing is, no men know what those women are thinking in actual fact.

In short, some men are just dumb. When they think they are smart. =/
 

Endoh

Alpha Male
I guess there are plenty of factors that go into a marriage.

Whether Singapore women are materialistic or not, it's debatable. How much is enough? How much is not enough? How much is excess? Foreign brides tend to expect a lot lesser because comparing the living standards back in their own country, barely surviving in Singapore is already many times better.

There is something I thought I couldn't agree with though. Marrying docile wives need not necessary mean a man is chauvinist at heart. It simply means a man wanting a wife who knows her roles as much as the man serves his purpose in the family. As we know, it takes two hands to clap. Women may complain about husbands who lord over them, but ever take a second to wonder how a marriage can work out if the woman is also looking to lord over the husband? It's subjective... more often than none, we don't know the full details.

The media has always projected men as the root of the problem. Here's the catch, how many times have you read about cheating wives in the media? Well, the truth is - such incidents are often silenced because of the pragmatic thinking that "man shouldn't whine" about it. It's projecting a wrong image, especially if you have access to official statistics to see the ratio between cheating husbands and cheating wives.

It's no secret to earlier members I am a divorcee. Her third marriage, my first. When you look at it briefly, it's not difficult to wonder how a woman can go through 3 marriages and all failed. If after 3 marriages, she still doesn't know how to treasure the union, something must be very wrong somewhere. It's a vicious cycle of frequent partner changing that is.

Coming back to foreign brides, if "maintenance" is lower... hell why not? It's the same exact thing as Singapore women hunting for expats who earn higher than the average Singaporean guys. If the foreign brides’ traditional values are stronger than Singapore women... even better.

It's all about demand and supply... striking the leverage there.


MHO
 
Whether Singapore women are materialistic or not, it's debatable. How much is enough? How much is not enough? How much is excess? Foreign brides tend to expect a lot lesser because comparing the living standards back in their own country, barely surviving in Singapore is already many times better.

Singapore is a materialist culture. i don't think Singapore women & materialism is even a debate. ditto for Singapore men, who wed their foreign brides & integrate them into this society. becos otherwise, why don't they follow the bride & retire in a padi field?


It simply means a man wanting a wife who knows her roles as much as the man serves his purpose in the family.
isn't that a chauvinist disposition in itself? what is "a woman's role"? what is "the man's purpose in the family"? one would've thought in today's society that a man & woman in a family unit both serve equal purposes. equally.



Coming back to foreign brides, if "maintenance" is lower... hell why not? It's the same exact thing as Singapore women hunting for expats who earn higher than the average Singaporean guys.
yes, unfortunately, Singapore women & their expat guys aren't the subject to debate today.


If the foreign brides’ traditional values are stronger than Singapore women... even better.
"traditional values" pointing towards "a wife who knows her roles as much as the man serves his purpose in the family" lah?


you see Endoh, you've just gone & proven my case in point.

anyway, no offence. just the devil's advocate =)
 
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Endoh

Alpha Male
Singapore is a materialist culture. i don't think Singapore women & materialism is even a debate. ditto for Singapore men, who wed their foreign brides & integrate them into this society. becos otherwise, why don't they follow the bride & retire in a padi field?
It's interesting how you arrive at the conclusion that marrying a foreign bride transpire into retiring in a padi field but that's beside the point.

You'd see, you are contradicting your very own words when much earlier on you are concluding an absolute that foreign women ARE materialistic. Now on a later part, you reinforce your ideal that you don't feel Singapore women & materialism is even a debate.

My question is rather simple, are you able to subject yourself to the same criteria or doubts in your criticism of foreign women?


isn't that a chauvinist disposition in itself? what is "a woman's role"? what is "the man's purpose in the family"? one would've thought in today's society that a man & woman in a family unit both serve equal purposes. equally.
Another question for you. Since you emphasized that both man and woman serve equal purposes, why are we still using the Women Charter? Isn't the Women Charter implemented to protect women deemed as the weaker gender? If going by your definition of equality, then it is high time we scrapped the Women Charter. Will you agree with that? Or will you still want exclusive protection while at the same time preaching about equality?

How else do you define a "non-chauvanist" act? If you are that particular about equality, then you have simply failed in the notion of "give-and-take". In a marriage, give-n-take is one of the most crucial factors to substain a marriage.

So point proven, female chauvinism is real and ever-growing. Little wonder why more marriages are failing these days due to this constant fight over how much one should do to stay in a marriage. The only way for a man to stay in a marriage ruled by female chauvinism is by being a hen-pecked husband at the beck and call of the wife. I pity the man, in that case.

Of course, many are still unable to accept the fact that man and woman are never born equal. It's the strength of one complementing the weakness of the other. Think about jigsaw puzzle pieces fitting into each other despite the jagged edges. :)

yes, unfortunately, Singapore women & their expat guys aren't the subject to debate today.
It is the same exact analogy, except a reverse of roles. First, a foreign wife and a Singapore husband. Then, a foreign husband and a Singapore wife.

Again the same question pops up, are you able to subject Singapore women to the same exact qualifications when you are criticising Singapore men at the same time? (You claimed equality? Remember?)

No offence too. There are very good reasons why the parliament are rejecting more clauses from being added into Women Charter. Well, more and more women are beginning to abuse it for their own good.

Remember, faireness is NOT only going the women's desired path.

you see Endoh, you've just gone & proven my case in point.
If your entire focus is just to make yourself sound right, how wrong it can be then. Men are not perfect, but women like you ain't too. All of us have flaws and therefore there can NEVER be total equality.

I would strongly urge you to put yourself under the same exact alignment of criticism you had of others. In this case, the foreign brides or whoever it may be. If you cannot subject yourself to the same standards you expect of others, then there is really nothing much to talk about. Why are Singapore men turning to foreign wives? Maybe the above example is precisely why?

Btw, hoping to see you subject yourselves to the standards you "set" for others is not male chauvinism. It's only a matter of whether can we live by our words.

Oh well, that's Singaporeans for you. :)
 
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You'd see, you are contradicting your very own words when much earlier on you are concluding an absolute that foreign women ARE materialistic. Now on a later part, you reinforce your ideal that you don't feel Singapore women & materialism is even a debate.

My question is rather simple, are you able to subject yourself to the same criteria or doubts in your criticism of foreign women?

you've misunderstood. i said Singapore is a materialist culture, so Singapore women being materialistic isn't even a debate. my point is Sg women ARE materialistic. & so are Sg men. the padi field is an analogy. if Sg men aren't as materialistic as their female counterparts then why integrate their brides into this society? why not seize his intercultural advantage & escape the curse of our 5Cs (it's 6 now isn't it i've lost count)?


Another question for you. Since you emphasized that both man and woman serve equal purposes, why are we still using the Women Charter? Isn't the Women Charter implemented to protect women deemed as the weaker gender? If going by your definition of equality, then it is high time we scrapped the Women Charter. Will you agree with that? Or will you still want exclusive protection while at the same time preaching about equality?
sorry. the woman's charter was set up in support against the chauvinist intentions of a predominantly male society. you forget that this is a world still rampant with such "traditional values" that you have yourself articulated. the same "values" that drove Sg men towards women they perceive would not "lord" over them, & "who knows her roles" in relation to her husband. it was also set up to protect wives from potentially abusive situations, of husbands who, more often that not, are great fans of "traditional values".

equality does not equate to "exclusive protection".


How else do you define a "non-chauvanist" act? If you are that particular about equality, then you have simply failed in the notion of "give-and-take". In a marriage, give-n-take is one of the most crucial factors to substain a marriage.

So point proven, female chauvinism is real and ever-growing. Little wonder why more marriages are failing these days due to this constant fight over how much one should do to stay in a marriage. The only way for a man to stay in a marriage ruled by female chauvinism is by being a hen-pecked husband at the beck and call of the wife. I pity the man, in that case.

firstly, what makes you think that equality isn't about giving & taking? when a husband provides an opportunity for his wife to maintain her career after marriage, is that not equality AND giving & taking? when a wife excuses the husband from household chores he is responsible over becos he's tired from work, is that not equality AND giving & taking?

i had no idea when this conversation transgressed into male vs female chauvinism & hen-pecked husbands. :Dancing_hmm:




Of course, many are still unable to accept the fact that man and woman are never born equal. It's the strength of one complementing the weakness of the other. Think about jigsaw puzzle pieces fitting into each other despite the jagged edges. :)
men & women are NOT born equal, & i've never proposed that. but many societies would do well to recognise equal opportunities for both.


It is the same exact analogy, except a reverse of roles. First, a foreign wife and a Singapore husband. Then, a foreign husband and a Singapore wife.

Again the same question pops up, are you able to subject Singapore women to the same exact qualifications when you are criticising Singapore men at the same time? (You claimed equality? Remember?)

Remember, faireness is NOT only going the women's desired path.

Of cos Sg women are subject to the same "qualifications". A Sg woman with a Caucasian Australian husband living in Sydney would, by their society & cultural definitions, be perceived in exactly the same way some of the women i've been bemoaning about in my earlier posts.

so we're right back to square 1!!


If your entire focus is just to make yourself sound right, how wrong it can be then. Men are not perfect, but women like you ain't too. All of us have flaws and therefore there can NEVER be total equality.

if you ask me, it seems rather like you're starting to take this personal. this debate isn't about me or you. it's about us representing the status quo & defending over our perceptions.

i'm not the champion of "Sg men can't marry foreign brides". i was merely stating an observation, & since my posts here with you ... lots of other observations.



I would strongly urge you to put yourself under the same exact alignment of criticism you had of others. In this case, the foreign brides or whoever it may be. If you cannot subject yourself to the same standards you expect of others, then there is really nothing much to talk about. Why are Singapore men turning to foreign wives? Maybe the above example is precisely why?

if by that you mean that Sg men are turning to foreign wives becos Sg men are simply too transparent to Sg women, then i reiterate, defend & reconcile that "men who marry docile women are just chauvinists @ heart. they just want a woman @ their beck & call, who don't have much opinion, who'll attend to their every need ... & most importantly - don't complain!"

besides, i did not marry my husband because he is a Singapore citizen!
 
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Endoh

Alpha Male
you've misunderstood. i said Singapore is a materialist culture, so Singapore women being materialistic isn't even a debate. my point is Sg women ARE materialistic. & so are Sg men.
If you're recognizing this fact, why the unhappiness with Singapore men marrying foreign brides?

sorry. the woman's charter was set up in support against the chauvinist intentions of a predominantly male society.
I am equally sorry, that you should read up on what the Women Charter is truly for. This is precisely what I mean by women twisting the Women Charter for their own good.

The Singapore Council of Women's Organizations

You'd see. You started off with a strong stand that Singapore men marrying foreign brides are male chauvinists at heart. Your further support this claim with particular emphasis on equality. Now here's the funny part.

1. Does being a foreign bride means they must be accomplishing more than Singapore women to deserve a Singapore husband?

you'll know it's love when the "foreign wife" insists her singapore husband migrate to her own home country & stay with her look after her family.
2. Based on your definition above, only IF the Singapore husband moves to the country of origin of his foreign wife, only then you consider it love? As long as a foreign bride requests to move to Singapore, they are money grubbers, so to speak?

3. Since you emphasized so much on moving here moving there, if a foreign bride is wanting to relocate to Singapore so there is minimal disruption to her husband's professional life, is that not love but materialism?

4. Is Singapore husbands integrating their foreign brides into Singapore's culture a bad thing like you have described?

if you ask me, it seems rather like you're starting to take this personal. this debate isn't about me or you. it's about us representing the status quo & defending over our perceptions.
I hardly get personal with anyone, especially now that it's in full public view of how critical you are of foreign wives (like they're totally toxic). That is no secret, and only a reason known to you.

There are much other examples to counter your observations. If you care enough to check with your friends if they happen to be lawyers, I can safely tell you the statistics of Singapore wives cheating on their husbands are on the rise. There's always a much bigger picture than just your observations.

if by that you mean that Sg men are turning to foreign wives becos Sg men are simply too transparent to Sg women, then i reiterate, defend & reconcile that "men who marry docile women are just chauvinists @ heart. they just want a woman @ their beck & call, who don't have much opinion, who'll attend to their every need ... & most importantly - don't complain!"
I am sure you too, expect your husband to attend to your needs equally. Going by your statement, wouldn't that qualify you as a female chauvinist? Sorry, I am going solely by your description above.

I am definitely open to opinions. But do bear in mind if you would like to counter my opinions, back it up with some facts. Do not assume or stereotype foreign brides. I am sure you will not feel good if someone stereotype you too. Do not take offence, but I think your responses above have shown how much your opinions cannot be opposed, even with the lack of concrete evidence.

How much of your observations relate to the foreign brides scene? Are all the cases you have known of sufficient for you to sink the entire boat?

We can criticize Singapore men and foreign brides for all we want. But remember, as the Chinese saying goes, it's easy for you to point ten fingers at somebody else, but once you close your fist, the ten fingers are now pointing back at you.

I don't blame you of course. I can only blame it on Singapore society for this elitism, thinking Singaporeans are better than anyone else.

I rest my case, since you are so adamant about condemning foreign wives. This will lead to nowhere. Have a nice day.
 
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tommyBoi

Alpha Male
After reading the above comments, I know why many sg men married foreign wives. :001_302:

Of coz there are good and bad abt marrying sg or foreign wives, but we shld look at why more sg men are marrying foreign wives NOW. There must be a good reason behind that, which i agreed wif Endoh.

Take myself as example.. My wife is a Malaysian and she is a Singaporean now. We had been thru up and down in our 11 yrs of marriage and she always by my side. I believe some of them in this forum know what profession i working as.. and i can honestly said no sg wives can accept my profession. Not only she trusted me, even when i drunk (sometime) and on my way home in the early morning (6am), she will wait for me at the road side to carry me home, and she need to go back to her office in the morning.

Of coz there are some good sg wives as well but why sg men still go for foreign wives? It is the same as why more ppl go for NOKIA hp instead of other brand?? There must be a reason behind that rite??

Cheers!!
 
If you're recognizing this fact, why the unhappiness with Singapore men marrying foreign brides?
you were pushing the fact tt Sg women must be subject to the same "qualifications" we're holding up against these foreign brides. so i did. & i concur that Sg society, Sg women & Sg men are all materialistic!

it was just a statement of fact - nothing to do with my seeming "unhappiness" over the issue.

in any case, again i reiterate: my opinions were derived from my observations. i don't profess myself a "champion" of this issue.



I am equally sorry, that you should read up on what the Women Charter is truly for. This is precisely what I mean by women twisting the Women Charter for their own good.

The Singapore Council of Women's Organizations

what are you talking about? the statutes listed in the page you kindly posted for everyone's benefit dictate equal opportunities for the woman in a predominantly male society, & protects them from potentially abusive situations. what about those did i "twist" for my "own good"?

Equal Opportunities
  • recognises the wife's right to a different domicile from her husband;
  • gives equal rights and duties to both husbands and wives in the management of the home and children;
  • makes it obligatory for a husband to maintain his wife and children during marriage and after divorce;
  • entitles the divorced man or wife to a share of matrimonial assets
Potentially Abusive Situations
  • enables a battered spouse to gain protection from the perpetrator;
  • provides the punishment for offences against women and girls.
i am sure the amendments listed further down that page will just as much fit into either or


You'd see. You started off with a strong stand that Singapore men marrying foreign brides are male chauvinists at heart. Your further support this claim with particular emphasis on equality. Now here's the funny part.

1. Does being a foreign bride means they must be accomplishing more than Singapore women to deserve a Singapore husband?
Yes. Otherwise, why else would a Sg man marry them?

unless of course they were looking for "docile", "beck & call" and "don't complain" :tsmile:


2. Based on your definition above, only IF the Singapore husband moves to the country of origin of his foreign wife, only then you consider it love? As long as a foreign bride requests to move to Singapore, they are money grubbers, so to speak?
Generally speaking, yes.


3. Since you emphasized so much on moving here moving there, if a foreign bride is wanting to relocate to Singapore so there is minimal disruption to her husband's professional life, is that not love but materialism?
Of course it's materialism! why can't the Sg husband make the sacrifice of moving to her country instead? why can't he give up his car, condo & career? why must she leave behind her entire family & her whole life as she knew it?

because of love? or so her Sg husband can have the best of both worlds - a "docile" wife AND the creature comforts of a materialist society.


4. Is Singapore husbands integrating their foreign brides into Singapore's culture a bad thing like you have described?

only if one fine day, he discovers she has another Singapore boyfriend, then demands a divorce whic then entitles her to half his assets. don't forget that the "twisting" of the women's charter you've so fondly accused Sg women of perpetrating (myself somehow included) also appliesto foreign brides. once they're Sg PR :tsmile:




There are much other examples to counter your observations. If you care enough to check with your friends if they happen to be lawyers, I can safely tell you the statistics of Singapore wives cheating on their husbands are on the rise. There's always a much bigger picture than just your observations.

as i'm sure there are just as many statistics on foreign brides who cheat on their poor Sg husbands.

you forget that the devil in us lives in other countries too.

I am sure you too, expect your husband to attend to your needs equally. Going by your statement, wouldn't that qualify you as a female chauvinist? Sorry, I am going solely by your description above.

are you trying to tell everyone, that a woman who demands for equal opportunities is a female chauvinist?

so if i request to continue with my career after marriage & kids, that makes me a female chauvinist? is that because i won't have the time to be "docile", be at my husband's "beck & call" & submit to your general "traditional values"?


I am definitely open to opinions. But do bear in mind if you would like to counter my opinions, back it up with some facts. Do not assume or stereotype foreign brides. I am sure you will not feel good if someone stereotype you too. Do not take offence, but I think your responses above have shown how much your opinions cannot be opposed, even with the lack of concrete evidence.

because i do not necessarily submit to your opinions, it is simply my opinions who cannot be opposed?

"lack of concrete evidence" here unfortunately is subjective. you've not presented enough evidence yourself to be an authority of what's factual & what is not from me. instead of asking me what i meant about the woman's charter, you've gone & twisted it to meet your own perceptions.

How much of your observations relate to the foreign brides scene? Are all the cases you have known of sufficient for you to sink the entire boat?

We can criticize Singapore men and foreign brides for all we want. But remember, as the Chinese saying goes, it's easy for you to point ten fingers at somebody else, but once you close your fist, the ten fingers are now pointing back at you.

I don't blame you of course. I can only blame it on Singapore society for this elitism, thinking Singaporeans are better than anyone else.

i am the last person on earth who would think Singaporeans are king - i have a million & one grouses about the typical Singaporean & his society. so just because i have ONE grouse about "Sg men & their foreign brides" does not make me haughty.

it simply means, yes i have observed enough.

of course there are exceptions to the rule, but as all exceptions go - they are few & far between. so ... what was the rule again about the majority?

sure you may call it stereotyping. just like how the thousands of "foreign brides" out there think that marrying a Sg man & moving to Sg will solve all their problems. Sg man = better life --> stereotype!

I rest my case, since you are so adamant about condemning foreign wives. This will lead to nowhere. Have a nice day.

if you have not taken this personal, you would still care about what i have to say. but ... no offence taken. have a nice week yourself.
 

Endoh

Alpha Male
QUOTE OF THE DAY: No wonder Singapore men are all looking elsewhere. :)
 
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lulu

New Member
Hi all,
sorry for posting a lengthy message but i would just like to voice out my thoughts as a non-singaporean.

I've been following this thread and I think we have to be fair...
There's so much notion and misconception about foreign women being poor, uneducated and look upon their singaporean husbands as their "saviour" from the poor living condition in their original countries. But, this is not true in most cases. Most of time, it's just fate that brings 2 people together.

I'm from one of the 3 big cities in Indonesia. I stayed in the US for 4 years to obtain my Engineering undegraduate degree. I came to singapore as I was offered a job as an Engineer 2 months before I graduated by an US MNC in Singapore. I got an Employment Pass and 6 months later, I was approved for Singapore PR through Professional Personnel scheme. While working, I obtained my MBA degree from NUS. And, I also happened to meet my now-husband. Incidentally, he's a singaporean. I never meant to find a singaporean husband, and he never meant to find a non-singaporean wife either. But, we find each other compatible in many things and 4 years later, we got married. He's not rich, coming from a taxi-driver father and housewife mother with 4 other siblings (he's the 5th child). My father is a businessman, and i would say my family is many times financially stronger than his. But, this doesnt matter. What i know is he's hardworking, sincere and his family treats me well, so we got married. Not because he's a singaporean. We've been married for 4 years now and i would say he's still the caring person that i met 8 years ago.

His 3 other brothers also married non-singaporean wives and all of them also come from well-to-do families. They never meant to marry non-singaporean wives either but somehow they met each other and fell in love and got married.

Despite saying all these, i'm aware that there're women coming from poor living conditions who marry singaporeans to get a so-called better life. But, i think rather than despising them, we should actually take pity on them and feel grateful that we don't need to do what they have to do just to have a better life.

So, the facts are:
(1) Not all foreign (non-Singaporean) women are poor or coming from poor family who think that Singaporean men are rich. In my case, if i would like to simply get a rich husband, I would have looked for my fellow indonesian-chinese as most of their families have own businesses, compared to singaporeans who mostly come from working-class families (no offend intended). I believe this scenario is also applicable for some women coming from vietnam, cambodia and other 3rd world countries.
(2) Many foreign women are highly educated in western countries and come to Singapore for good jobs. Many obtain their Singapore PR through their own means, meaning by getting the Employment Pass and then applying for PR through the Professional Personnel scheme, and not by relying on their Singaporean husbands to apply for them.
(3) Not all Singaporean men purposely prefer to marry foreign women than to marry Singaporean women. Most of the time, it's just fate that brings people together, regardless of the nationalities.
(4) Not all foreign women are more submissive than the singaporean women. I think this depends a lot on the woman's education level, financial independence, self-respect, family upbringing, etc. Anyway, i feel that in marriage, there're times that we have to be submissive to our partner's needs. Being submissive doesn't always mean that we're on the losing end.
 
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