Maternity & Paternity Leaves

[Endoh]

Since I am in a mummy forum, might as well take this chance to ask for some feedbacks. I think this applies more to full time working mums.

For quite some time, I have been discussing with friends in other companies and trades holding management or HR related positions, about expanding the maternity & paternity benefits. To kick this off, these benefits is not in replacement of the current maternity entitlement but in addition. Also, it does not affect the salary of returning mothers.

I hope to get some feedbacks from working mums. Of course while doing so, I also hope working mums can take some serious considerations instead of adopting the "got leave of course take lor" mentality.

=========================================================

FOR WORKING MUMS
+ 2 weeks of "Induction Cycle" (IC) immediately after full maternity leave
+ 2 weeks of "Induction Cycle" (IC) consisting of half-day work schedule
+ 2 weeks of "Induction Cycle" (IC) covered with full day salary
+ Does not cut into the official 12 weeks Maternity Leave (ML) as stipulated by Employment Act
+ Applicable strictly only after completion of Full ML, not allowed to be taken randomly unlike balance ML

Example;
8wks Full ML + 2wks IC + 4wks ML (Random clearance)
OR
10wks Full ML + 2wks IC + 2wks ML (Random clearance)
OR
12wks Full ML + 2wks IC + 0wks ML (Random clearance)

Possible Benefits;
+ Gradual return to work post instead of a sudden full working schedule
+ Gradual take-over/hand-over of work contents
+ Gradual adaption for infants from maternal care to care-takers etc
+ General appreciation of employees contribution

FOR WORKING DADS
+ 3 Days Paternity Leave (PL)
+ Eligible upon first notice of spouse's delivery
+ Applicable only for working days, and does not affect weekend deliveries

Example;
Spouse delivery on Sat/Sun - PL from Mon to Wed
OR
Spouse delivery on Thurs - PL from Thurs to Mon
OR
Spouse delivery on Fri - PL from Fri to Tues

Possible Benefits;
+ Recognition of husband/father responsibilities
+ Availability of male employee for family

=========================================================

The rationale behind these, is to induce a certain level of realistic work-life balance. Many employers preach work-life balance but realistically, no significant changes.

For mothers, it will be a good time for them to slowly adjust themselves back to "work mode". Sometimes after a short 3 days holiday, going back to work is already arghhhhhhh! I believe it is more challenging for working mums to return to their positions after such a long maternity leave. Also, it allow the infants more time to slowly adapt to another care-taker. Instead of having the mother disappear for a full day suddenly... this can be conducted over a gradual period, with mums away for only half a day during this period.

Afterall, the chances of a female employee giving birth twice in a single year is almost close to zero. If a female delivers in January and decides to deliver again in Oct to Dec, I think the government should really give her a $5k ang pow for being so supportive of their "have babies" propoganda.

As for dads, it's about time to recognize that fathers/husbands also play an important role especially after the spouse's delivery. Hence, it is important for husbands to be by their wives side, at least for the initial few days when their spouses are at their weakest. Husbands can also take that time to help take care of infant while spouse is still week. A handful of companies offer compassionate leave to working dads, but seriously not many do that. Dads are also not covered by the Employment Act as much.

1. Do you think this will help you in transiting back to the workforce better? Or do you think it makes little difference?

2. Do you feel that the availability of your husband will be helpful during the first week of confinement at least? Or it doesn't matter?

3. Do you think that the stipulated 12 weeks by Employment Act is already sufficient for you to factor in the transition back to work?

4. Do you forsee a situation of these welfare being abused in anyway?

5. Any suggestions/feedbacks?

 

[Angelmum]

FOR WORKING MUMS
+ 2 weeks of "Induction Cycle" (IC) immediately after full maternity leave
+ 2 weeks of "Induction Cycle" (IC) consisting of half-day work schedule
+ 2 weeks of "Induction Cycle" (IC) covered with full day salary
+ Does not cut into the official 12 weeks Maternity Leave (ML) as stipulated by Employment Act
+ Applicable strictly only after completion of Full ML, not allowed to be taken randomly unlike balance ML
Possible Benefits;
+ Gradual return to work post instead of a sudden full working schedule
+ Gradual take-over/hand-over of work contents
+ Gradual adaption for infants from maternal care to care-takers etc
+ General appreciation of employees contribution
=========================================================

Now not working but assume I'm still working .......
yr concept is worth considering but asking a new mum to travel to n fro just to appear for half day work is too much a hassle. I would rather hv 2 or 3 full days/wk to adjust.

To report for work, we still hv to hire a babysitter at full month cost, not pro-rated unless they dont mind a low/unstable income. Dont forget a babysitter might not be yr mil/mum/maid who lives with u so u need to travel to n fro to get yr infant - another hassle.

FOR WORKING DADS
+ 3 Days Paternity Leave (PL)
+ Eligible upon first notice of spouse's delivery
+ Applicable only for working days, and does not affect weekend deliveries
=========================================================

currently got parent's (childcare) leave that allows parents to clear anytime.

1. Do you think this will help you in transiting back to the workforce better? Or do you think it makes little difference?
A: commented

2. Do you feel that the availability of your husband will be helpful during the first week of confinement at least? Or it doesn't matter?
A: with CF so doesnt matter. No CF den it helps

3. Do you think that the stipulated 12 weeks by Employment Act is already sufficient for you to factor in the transition back to work?
A: factor in the transition back to work ????
When u r gone for 12wks u had to take over yr 'old' work, almost like 'learning' new things due to disappearance.

4. Do you forsee a situation of these welfare being abused in anyway?
A: I think employer will abuse employee. They might feel since employee can come back to work means 'well' to slog, forgetting the incentive/main goal is to 'reward' ppl for giving birth (Spore economy). I hv heard employer asking employee back to work with a lower pay compensation on top of the paid ML. This plan looks more favourable to the employer.

 

[Endoh]

Let's not turn this into a "complain against employers" thread for now. Let's just concentrate on what employers can assist and help employees on handling major family commitments such as delivery. In fact, I didn't write a single factor on how these benefits will impact the employers.

yr concept is worth considering but asking a new mum to travel to n fro just to appear for half day work is too much a hassle. I would rather hv 2 or 3 full days/wk to adjust.

Your comment for "hassle" is noted, something that I didn't think about. Wouldn't working 2 or 3 full days in a week defeats the "gradual transition" already? Wouldn't this become a case of selective working cycle instead of a "gradual transition" as well?

To report for work, we still hv to hire a babysitter at full month cost, not pro-rated unless they dont mind a low/unstable income. Dont forget a babysitter might not be yr mil/mum/maid who lives with u so u need to travel to n fro to get yr infant - another hassle.

Interesting points you have there. So if you are at home, the babysitter is no longer required? Or babysitter can still be around to help?

Between half-day & full-day, I believe the travelling is very much the same. Can I assume that this came about because the same exact travelling required is dependent on the hours of work?

currently got parent's (childcare) leave that allows parents to clear anytime.

As far as I know, each parent is entitled to two days of childcare leave per year. To add on, this is irregardless of how many children you have. Will only two days be enough?


Thanks for sharing... definitely some points that are worth looking into. I would like to come up with some sort of welfare that employees can enjoy.

 

[Angelmum]

Let's not turn this into a "complain against employers" thread for now. Let's just concentrate on what employers can assist and help employees on handling major family commitments such as delivery. In fact, I didn't write a single factor on how these benefits will impact the employers.

A: u asked "Do you forsee a situation of these welfare being abused in anyway?" That's was my opinon as an employee

yr concept is worth considering but asking a new mum to travel to n fro just to appear for half day work is too much a hassle. I would rather hv 2 or 3 full days/wk to adjust.

Your comment for "hassle" is noted, something that I didn't think about. Wouldn't working 2 or 3 full days in a week defeats the "gradual transition" already? Wouldn't this become a case of selective working cycle instead of a "gradual transition" as well?

To report for work, we still hv to hire a babysitter at full month cost, not pro-rated unless they dont mind a low/unstable income. Dont forget a babysitter might not be yr mil/mum/maid who lives with u so u need to travel to n fro to get yr infant - another hassle.

Interesting points you have there. So if you are at home, the babysitter is no longer required? Or babysitter can still be around to help?

Between half-day & full-day, I believe the travelling is very much the same. Can I assume that this came about because the same exact travelling required is dependent on the hours of work?

A: Selective working cycle cum gradual transition is based on the employee n employer to discuss. It is still gradual cos u dont work everyday. 5 x half day is about 20hrs/wk. 2 to 3 days, u can opt to work 5-6hrs/day .... avoiding the human peak hr jam.

A: Half a day work means u travel everyday, pay for transport everyday, doll & dress up everyday, face the jam everyday and everyday got to pick yr infant at babysitter hse. See the difference?

I was previously working in this manner so I understand the hassle n inconvenience. My babysitter (relative) lives in CCK while I'm in Bt Batok. A lot time wasted to travel - work n ferry bb. Also, she needs the money to feed her family so monthly fee is given unless I decide to seek another (stranger).

A: babysitter need not be around since I'm available, dont wish to spend extra + want pte time with bb.

currently got parent's (childcare) leave that allows parents to clear anytime.

As far as I know, each parent is entitled to two days of childcare leave per year. To add on, this is irregardless of how many children you have. Will only two days be enough?

A: PL only valid for wife's ML 1st wk. CC anytime for child below 5yrs. If PL can be made like the ML/PL would be better - clear PL depend on needs within wife ML period. Need not clear at one go, sometimes quite wasteful. Eg daddy may want to clear when infant taking injection/review rather den 'shake legs' at home if cant be of any significant help so mummy still in CF need not go out to 'blow wind'.

Thanks for sharing... definitely some points that are worth looking into. I would like to come up with some sort of welfare that employees can enjoy.

A: we all hope to obtain win-win situation.

 

[huihui]

+ 2 weeks of "Induction Cycle" (IC) consisting of half-day work schedule
I tog the govt maternity leave, 1st 8wks are continous, then balance 4wks can be taken randomly. So if u require half-day work schedule to get back into working mood, then u shd make use of these 4wks or the last 1 wk to begin ur work as half-day.

Also, it allow the infants more time to slowly adapt to another care-taker. Instead of having the mother disappear for a full day suddenly... this can be conducted over a gradual period, with mums away for only half a day during this period.

If worry abt infants unable to adapt the sudden disappearance, perhaps the mother can drop the infants over to the care-taker a few hrs / a day for a few days before she start work. So the infants can gradually adjust to a stranger environment. Den the mums can go shopping/relax/pamper so as to prepare herself back to work during these short hrs break. (This is wat i did to my DS, i left him a few hrs in the day wif my MIL for a wk before i start work, so he get used to my MIL's hse)

FOR WORKING DADS
+ 3 Days Paternity Leave (PL)
+ Eligible upon first notice of spouse's delivery
+ Applicable only for working days, and does not affect weekend deliveries

My hb got this 3days paternity leave. He's working in the govt offices, so this will be helpful to those in the private companies.

So in summary, i don think your proposal works. But then if it works, i will adopt this: "got leave of course take lor" mentality.

 

[Endoh]

A: Selective working cycle cum gradual transition is based on the employee n employer to discuss. It is still gradual cos u dont work everyday. 5 x half day is about 20hrs/wk. 2 to 3 days, u can opt to work 5-6hrs/day .... avoiding the human peak hr jam.

A: Half a day work means u travel everyday, pay for transport everyday, doll & dress up everyday, face the jam everyday and everyday got to pick yr infant at babysitter hse. See the difference?

I was previously working in this manner so I understand the hassle n inconvenience. My babysitter (relative) lives in CCK while I'm in Bt Batok. A lot time wasted to travel - work n ferry bb. Also, she needs the money to feed her family so monthly fee is given unless I decide to seek another (stranger).

A: babysitter need not be around since I'm available, dont wish to spend extra + want pte time with bb.

Don't you feel the objectives of this transition welfare has been "mis-used" in this aspect?

The objective of this welfare that I planned for initially, is to assist and provide an environment for working mums to adapt back to the working mode. Working mode means the usual working cycle of having to come to work everyday, but for shorter hours before she resumes a complete full day cycle. Having her around 5 days a week also allows her to keep track of her work on a daily basis. Your point will be noted again, because different industries and vocations different demands have to be met.

Hence, it is not meant to be a solution for working mums to escape from the daily frustrations on the transport system, peak hour madness or even travelling distance. For these reasons, I believe working half-day or working full-day makes little difference to daily frustrations like these.

A: PL only valid for wife's ML 1st wk. CC anytime for child below 5yrs. If PL can be made like the ML/PL would be better - clear PL depend on needs within wife ML period. Need not clear at one go, sometimes quite wasteful. Eg daddy may want to clear when infant taking injection/review rather den 'shake legs' at home if cant be of any significant help so mummy still in CF need not go out to 'blow wind'.

CC is available for any child below 7 years of age, but that doesn't matter. The reason why I am thinking of introducing a 3-day PL benefit for male employees is because as I slowly observed fathers around me, they often have to use their vacation leave to attend to such matters. Yet, CC leave of 2 days doesn't seem to be quite enough.

Assuming a father decides to use his CC leave to cover the first two days after his spouse deliver, he is left with nothing for the rest of the year. Therefore, this welfare of 3 days PL will preserve that 2 days of CC for him to exercise over the rest of the year.

What do you think?

 

[stonston]

WOw, so many views!
i'm a working mum in govt sector, so actualli things like going back to work gradually, etc is all very possible as long as u made it clear when u announced ur pregnancy

1. Do you think this will help you in transiting back to the workforce better? Or do you think it makes little difference?
Initially, I wanted to go back to work gradually. However, not all jobs can be done like that. It might mean extra cost to employer, which some companies cannot afford. So even if the option is available, how many employers can actually afford to do so and allow the employees to do so?

Honestly, I think it is pointless because if an employer wants to allow that flexibility, they would already be doing it.

2. Do you feel that the availability of your husband will be helpful during the first week of confinement at least? Or it doesn't matter?
It would be nice if daddies can be at home to share the experience of having a newborn at home. However, if it is 1 week only, many families will still have to resort to getting a confinement lady for the rest of the 3 weeks. In this case, then daddy might as well not be home to shake leg and make the new mummy more frustrated when she sees daddy doing nothing at home.

During the first week, I rather not have my husband at home. Baby sleeps most of the time. And when baby is awake, I'm breastfeeding

3. Do you think that the stipulated 12 weeks by Employment Act is already sufficient for you to factor in the transition back to work?
Yes.

4. Do you forsee a situation of these welfare being abused in anyway?
Definitely.

5. Any suggestions/feedbacks?
Think of the employer's costs involved also. If it is not worth hiring women due to long ML, less women will be employed.

 

[Endoh]

I tog the govt maternity leave, 1st 8wks are continous, then balance 4wks can be taken randomly. So if u require half-day work schedule to get back into working mood, then u shd make use of these 4wks or the last 1 wk to begin ur work as half-day.

So in this way, it will cut into the stipulated 12 weeks?

My hb got this 3days paternity leave. He's working in the govt offices, so this will be helpful to those in the private companies.

So in summary, i don think your proposal works. But then if it works, i will adopt this: "got leave of course take lor" mentality.

I am not sure if that 3 days PL is a (new) official entitlement or privilege out of goodwill. I used to work for the govt too, and I don't remember where in my employment deed it stated that. I did a check with my civil servants friends, they don't get that too. Most were clearing their own annual leave.

You are right, this philosophy is actually meant to cater for private companies to be more realistic in their support for such situations instead of only thinking about how companies lose/win. Especially when more & more companies are beginning to adopt contracted limitations (Eg, Zoe Tay's suspension) to bypass the Employment Act.

So far, I can see the sentiments that such a move is redundant.

 

[Endoh]

5. Any suggestions/feedbacks?
Think of the employer's costs involved also. If it is not worth hiring women due to long ML, less women will be employed.

I am actually quite shocked to read this from a working mum. Of course, I don't mean anything against you. However when one is adopting this philosophy, isn't that itself a discrimination towards working mums? Shouldn't they be provided with equal employment opportunities and benefits?

 

[Angelmum]

[/color]
CC is available for any child below 7 years of age, but that doesn't matter. The reason why I am thinking of introducing a 3-day PL benefit for male employees is because as I slowly observed fathers around me, they often have to use their vacation leave to attend to such matters. Yet, CC leave of 2 days doesn't seem to be quite enough.

ya, forgot cc is for below 7yrs, DD still got 2yrs :001_302: :001_302: , was thinking of yr age.

[/color]
Assuming a father decides to use his CC leave to cover the first two days after his spouse deliver, he is left with nothing for the rest of the year. Therefore, this welfare of 3 days PL will preserve that 2 days of CC for him to exercise over the rest of the year.
What do you think?

That's y I said let PL be flexible - usable during the ML 12wks. some new mums in CL but infant got jaundice so need to run hospital or polyclinic, me for eg, cant even rest in peace. got to go out blow wind, move here n there. HB no PL, hv not introduced yet. Hard to take leave, heng got CF n polyclinic just 5mins walk. My No1 jaundice in hospital thus busy in & out hospital.

WOw, so many views! ......
....... It might mean extra cost to employer, which some companies cannot afford. So even if the option is available, how many employers can actually afford to do so and allow the employees to do so? ........Honestly, I think it is pointless because if an employer wants to allow that flexibility, they would already be doing it......
5. Any suggestions/feedbacks?
Think of the employer's costs involved also. If it is not worth hiring women due to long ML, less women will be employed.

Not many views lah just long winded
I agree with above :weyes: quotes:wesmile:

 

[Endoh]

Thanks for the inputs. Certainly appreciate it all.

So what do mummies feel about... let's say...

PATERNITY LEAVE
- 2 days Govt. CL + 3 days Co. Welfare PL
- All 5 days flexible

1. Will 5 days be sufficient?
2. Will it help realistically to have that 5 days off for male employees to help mummies running errands etc?
3. Is it really necessary for husbands to be by your side, or better off without them?

 

[stonston]

I am actually quite shocked to read this from a working mum. Of course, I don't mean anything against you. However when one is adopting this philosophy, isn't that itself a discrimination towards working mums? Shouldn't they be provided with equal employment opportunities and benefits?

I'm tinking fm my bosses' point of view....
in this society, nothing is 100% fair, 100% equal
it is human nature to do wot is best for them, wot will 'benefit' the company...

if you are a boss, dun tell me you wont tink for your company first? so staff benefits more impt than ur profits? then y open a company in e first place? to prove to e world tt ur company's staff benefit is so good but ur company got no profits?
put urself in your bosses' shoes....wot would u do?

not every1 works for the govt....n not every company has e ability to pay for such benefits...if it is made compulsory, isnt it pushing the small companies into a dead end? like tt i tink they rather hire foreigners since all these ML dun apply to them? then hire male Singaporeans to hit e quota to hire foreigners? then where will Singapore women be? stranded without a job!

there are many many other options when it comes to hiring workers n they r definitely not gonna be 'stranded' without us! foreign talent r much cheaper than us!

as much as i would love to have more time for my family, u also have to consider for our bosses....if it does not make economic sense to hire women due to all these leave issues, then you can expect them to not hire us....
and dun talk about equal opportunities for women...the world is ugly....

when they introduced 12 weeks paid leave, many bosses already started making noise....y? cos although the extended 4 weeks if paid for by govt, companies still need to fork out $$ to hire replacements or temp help!

n imagine ur colleagues having to cover ur job during ur absence....dun tell me u dun feel paiseh?
for me i will feel very paiseh if i take very long leave, leaving them to cover all my job if replacement cant be found (for certain jobs, replacements realli cant be found, like for my job)....though they very understanding keep telling me to rest well, enjoy my time with baby at home, i feel very bad tt they have to do so much extra work while i'm away....

n during the last few weeks of ML, i actualli tried to go back once or twice a week to help them clear some work...at the same time, allow me n baby to get used to being away fm each other for short while....to ease going back to work....
and i was not calculative like for the days i go back during flexible ML i must count it as working day n get another day off, etc etc....y b so calculative n end up making urself more upset onli?

 

[Endoh]

Woah... you sounded heated up. I'm not sure if you are aware of my intentions but in any way I have misled you, I'm sorry.

1. What your bosses do, or how your company behave has little to do with me, or at least little to do with what I am asking here in this thread. I am not asking if your boss or company is welcoming towards such a concept. If it's human nature, then yes - employee will always look forward to more welfare and benefits.

2. I have no bosses to report to and realistically, can & will two weeks of half-day work schedule cripple a company so much that it earns zero profit? Afterall, if employees are bringing in satisfactory revenues according to the projected progress then shouldn't bosses reward their staffs in a certain manner? The chances of a 100% female working environment with 100% pregnancy rate and delivery within the same week is... highly impossible.

What will I do? I will reward accordingly to their performances over time. When results are shown, they fully deserve it.

3. I don't know what gave you the idea that this plan is to be made compulsory for all, because I am only seeking feedbacks and see how this can balance out as a welfare for the female employees. I do not work for Ministry of Manpower, nor do I work for the government anymore. How other companies exploit their staffs, I have little control and surely I have no obligations to follow suit. Ultimately, when a welfare scheme is dished out the employees benefit. That is why it is called a "welfare".

4. I do not know how the welfare in a private company can force other small businesses into a "dead end". Care to enlighten?

5. I know the world is ugly, especially when it comes to opportunities for working mums. That is precisely why if I have to implement any welfare for anyone, I would dedicate it first and foremost to working mums & dads. Having said that, other companies being ugly in their manner of staff treatment has little to do with me. Instead of comparing with the worst, why not compare with better ones like The Body Shop - highly accredited for their social responsibility? Therefore, I have no obligations to follow in their footsteps.

I actually have alot more to say but since my intention has been misunderstood to such an extent, then I will just stop at this because I seriously have got no idea what gave you the impression that;

A. two weeks of half-day cycle will cripple a company
B. welfare will threaten other small businesses into "dead end"
C. that one must always adhere to the ugliness of the business

Cheerz